generators

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generators

Postby shermo » Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:43 am

hey all!

Might be looking at a gen and was wondering what size?

would need to power say some lights and some fridges that type of thing ?

ANy idea as to kvas?

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Postby Komodo » Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:46 pm

how many lights? and 240 or 12V
what fridge (again 240 or 12V)

Do you wish to use the generator to charge batteries?
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?

Postby shermo » Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:58 pm

Not sure mate don't really know that much about them?

240 volt i would say.

More so looking to plug in say a power board and run a few things off that
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Postby Komodo » Wed Jan 30, 2008 3:03 pm

Well realistically your question so far is how long is a piece of string.

if you want to run 240V appliances you will want something very quiet - an inverter type from the likes of honda.
how many kVa well your talking single phase so lets keep it in watts as you generally are going to have a power factor of 1. So say 5 x 60 watt globes = 300 fridge lets say 100watts misc items lets say another 100 watts thats about 500 watts so a 1kVa generator would be ample with plenty of room to move and add extra load yet still remain fuel efficient when not under load.

But realistically you will need to go around check the appliances you wish to use and work out their power use remembering things like microwaves use about 1.5 times their rated power (ie an 800watt nukerowave uses about 1200watts in real terms)

Personally I think you are better (though from an economical POV perhaps not) to go 12V appliances and use the generator to recharge batteries during the day
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Postby shermo » Wed Jan 30, 2008 3:26 pm

got ya
That is a better idea

thanks
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Postby Ozzycamperboy » Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:50 pm

If you use a generator in my camp site you get shot. No questions asked.

Unless its a Honda cause they are quiet as :armsup But cost almost as much as a divorce.


Having said that mate has a cheapy $99 from repco or stupid cheap, and it ran an angle grinder well enough. Good for an emergency or charging a batttery for short periods during the day but don't become one of those people who start it up at night to run a couple of lights :?
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Postby Troyk » Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:57 pm

Shermo,

I'd be trying to run things off 12v if possible. Its safer and there are good charging options like dual battery setups, solar etc. Its actaully surprising what you run off 12v and for extended periods.

Not many places let you use a generator even a Honda.
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Postby Komodo » Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:07 pm

True and personally I hate them. I have a cheap GMC generator its noisy (though not unbearable during the day) and it chews through fuel.

Like ozzy said its good for times when I need 240V power where none is available. We generally use it for car audio comps to run a small PA and a computer and a TermLab (SPL meter)

its only about 800watts and I wouldnt like to run an induction motor off it for too long.

At camp i have 2 fluro lanterns and a pair of gas lanterns a small portable cd player (which normally gets left at home) and the 12V fridge and a 12V charger for my camera and in all honesty whilst camping I have no need for 240V as such I sold my 1000w pure sine wave inverter on ebay 12 months ago.
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re domestic fridge on genne

Postby oldtrack123 » Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:00 pm

Hi
Calculating load watts is ok for all but induction moters as used in domestic fridges ,these can draw up to 10times rated current on start up.
If the genne is already loaded you could stall the genne or worse burn out the fridge.moter.if you go this way you probly need a gen arond 3times [min]your calculated load.
Seek advice from a reputable specialist generator supplier!!!
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Postby shermo » Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:11 pm

Thanls guys !

Bugger it to hard staying with powered sites LOL

(LAZY BUGGER)
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Postby will_deness » Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:14 am

Cheap generators produce "dirty power" (all to do with sine wave). The better ones Honda and Yamaha for example produce near perfect sine wave. So a cheapie would be ok for lights and stuff but really shouldn't be used on laptops or other electronic stuff. Not to mention the sound difference. My yamaha ef600 is 47-57 DB and my mates GMC has to be at least another ten on top of that, We can't hear mine when they are running next to each other.
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Postby Komodo » Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:23 am

pole alternating generators create a reasonable sine wave - its no way near as dirty as people make out. The problem with them is that they are prone to spikes and brown outs when loads are switched on and off - a fridge for example.
modified sine wave inverter technology generators are the worst but even so laptops should be fine because they use switch mode PSUs and good ones use good caps in their ripple filters after the bridge rectifier stage.

As for fridges most bar fridges are rated at or around 100- 140watts and the PMPO of the generator in 99% of cases will handle this - hey its an induction motor it can handle lower voltage as long as it has the current to draw on (within reason). I definately wouldnt suggest trying to run a 320L frost free electrolux with ice dispenser on one but a cheap and nasty $150 bar fridge from big-W ought be right

The problem with cheaper generators is that tehy have to run @ 3000 RPM to make 240VAC @ 50~. The other thin to remember is that 240V is measured root mean square and is not the voltage at the peak of the wave.

Fridges can run out of V/I phase which is where kVa comes into play but most people cant comprehend phase shift so I'll leave that to the experts to explain (been a LONG time since I had to know this stuff and I havent worked in the industry for a few years now)
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Postby GypsyLady » Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:57 pm

Komodo wrote:

Personally I think you are better (though from an economical POV perhaps not) to go 12V appliances and use the generator to recharge batteries during the day


That is exactly our set up, everything is 12 volt and when we have to run the Honda genny it is through a permanently fixed 3 stage (smart) charger to charge the batteries.

We mostly use solar but if there is inclement weather for a period of time we will recharge with the genny.
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